The 3rd Person View Controversy

2

It’s patch day over at MechWarrior Online, and.. it’s not pretty.  While today’s patch does include some weapon balancing, and some bug fixing.. it also introduces 3rd Person View.

To start with, I am generally supportive of Piranha Games.. I don’t agree with every decision they make, and think they’ve strayed a bit too far from the TabelTop rules…. but, I can support most decisions they make.  I’ve also purchased a Legendary Founder’s Package, and the Overlord Project Phoenix pack.. so I’m supportive of the game.

That said..  I’m extremely disappointed in Piranha Games’ handling of today’s patch.  Here’s the relevant snippet of patch notes.

Third Person View:
– In the options menu is a “Start In Third Person” option to determine which view you start each match in
– By default, this option is toggled on (to start games in third person view)
– When you are in third person view, Arm Lock is turned on and cannot be turned off
– When you are in third person view, the lance and minimap HUD elements are not available
– When you are in third person view, there is a camera drone hovering behind you that other players can see
– By default, you can press F4 to toggle between third and first person view
– This key can be rebound in the options menu
– You cannot switch views while your Mech is shut down

 

So, contrary to Bryan Ekman’s statements.. we are forced to play in 3PV (it defaults to ON), and, PGI decided not to provide the promised separate queues for 3PV and 1PV.  Instead, forcing people who do not want to play with 3PV, to have to.

For the record, so that it persists after Bryan goes and deletes the forum post where he stated this.. here is Bryan/PGI’s guarantee to MWO’s players regarding 3PV/1PV queues:

Recorded for Posterity's Sake.
Recorded for Posterity’s Sake.

If the ‘Facts’ as Bryan puts them, are that we will NEVER be forced to use 3PV.. why does it default to on?  If the ‘facts’ are that we will never be forced to queue against someone in 3PV why were the separate queues not implemented (the button is there in the GUI).  This is yet another example of PGI’s horrible communication with the community causing additional problems.

The response to pages of feedback from the community after reading patch notes today?  This unhelpful response from Bryan:

After designing, developing, and testing the MWO’s 3PV, we quickly realised that 3PV offered no significant advantage over 1PV. In fact we found each mode had pros and cons that played well with each other. This revelation changed our initial 3PV plans and we postponed Hardcore mode (separate queues for 1PV and 3PV), in favor of rethinking the idea and offering up a different solution that also addressed a few more community wish list items.

 

Part of the problem with this?  It was posted HOURS after the patch notes were, instead of proactively communicating this change.. Bryan waited till AFTER the community was already in an uproar.  Additional problems?  It shows that Bryan, Paul, Garth, and Russ completely ignored the feedback from the players after the 12 v 12 testing on the PTS.

Today’s 3PV implementation was exactly the same as it was on the test server.  This allows for anyone using 3PV to have a tactical advantage over anyone using 1PV.   Want to look over that hill, and not get shot at doing so?  Great! Just turn on 3PV!  Oh, found the targets you want to jump-snipe at? Great! Turn 3PV off and go!

A forum user (IceGryphon) posted this image, which illustrates quite clearly the advantage 3PV provides, due to increased field of view:

Top is 1st Person, bottom is 3rd Person.
Top is 1st Person, bottom is 3rd Person.

As you can see, there is a huge difference in what can be seen by using 3PV.. this provides a large tactical advantage (and, if you’re not moving, the seismic sensor doesn’t pick you up).

The supposed “balancing” factor according to Russ?  The fact that the Drone graphic for 3PV can be seen from a great distance.. you can’t destroy it, or see how many other ‘Mechs are there with the 1 ‘Mech in 3PV, or disrupt it, or do anything to it.. but, hey.. you can tell that one ‘Mech is there.. if you happen to see the glowing red dot across the map.. while they potentially know where all 12 of your ‘Mechs are.

As much as I hate to side with the “doomsayers”, I think they’re right on this one.  Today’s 3PV implementation shows how little attention PGI pays to customer feedback, even when it solicits that feedback via the Test Server Environment!

While I’m not to the point that I am going to ask for a refund for my Overlord pack, I am at the point where today’s patch – and the lackadaisical response from PGI to concerns/feedback about the patch and 3PV.. have killed my desire to play.

So, as of today, I’m no longer playing MWO, perhaps, if PGI honors the commitments they’ve made and implements separate queues for 1PV/3PV, and ensures that anyone using the tactical advantage provided by 3PV will not be able to participate in Community Warfare upon release.. I might start playing again.  If you are dis-satisfied with 3PV and PGI’s responses today, I urge you to take a break, perhaps once the number of people playing drops significantly PGI will address the valid concerns raised during 3PV testing, as well as feedback from today.

Full patch notes after the jump.

PATCH NOTES AUGUST 20TH, 2013
Open Beta Update #24

Upcoming Patch – Tuesday August 20th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT

Patch Number: 1.2.139

Change Log

UPDATE

Greetings MechWarriors,

Wow another patch notes intro! I hope I never stop writing these and I hope you never stop reading.

Lots happening in the the world of MWO so first a little recap

– The Launch Event was announced if you can make it we hope to see you there.
– Phoenix Variants were revealed and the Loyalty program is unlocking bonus content adding more and more value.
– Sarah’s Jenner donation drive is over and It raised a lot of money for a good cause. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts for making this such a success.

On to the Patch content

– 3rd Person is here! We hope you enjoy it!
– The Kintaro is available for C-bills now and we have also released a slew of patterns for the Kintaro.
– The Catapult Champion CPLT-A1(C), with its 10% XP bonus, is available for MC now.

See you on the Battlefield,

Matt Newman

– Content

– New Mechs

Kintaro KTO-20

– Tonnage: 55
– Engine: 275 Standard
– Top Speed: 81 kph
– Max Engine Rating: 360
– Torso Movement:
– 115 degrees to each side.
– 25 degrees up and down.
– Arm Movement:
– 45 degrees to each side.
– 30 degrees up and down.
– Armor: 358 (Ferro-Fibrous)
– Internal Structure: Standard
– Weapons & Equipment:
– Left Arm: SRM 6
– Center Torso: Large Laser
– Right Torso: SRM 6, LRM 5
– Right Arm: Medium Laser x2
– Hardpoints:
– Left Arm: 1 Missile
– Left Torso: 1 AMS
– Center Torso: 2 Energy
– Right Torso: 2 Missile
– Right Arm: 2 Energy
– Heat Sinks: 10 Double
– Jump Jets: 0 (0 Max)
– ECM Capable?: No
– Module Slots: 2
– Movement Archetype: Medium

Kintaro KTO-18

– Tonnage: 55
– Engine: 275 Standard
– Top Speed: 81 kph
– Max Engine Rating: 360
– Torso Movement:
– 100 degrees to each side.
– 20 degrees up and down.
– Arm Movement:
– 35 degrees to each side.
– 30 degrees up and down.
– Armor: 352 (Standard)
– Internal Structure: Standard
– Weapons & Equipment:
– Left Arm: SRM 6, LRM 5, Medium Laser
– Center Torso: SRM 6
– Right Torso: SRM 6
– Right Arm: Medium Laser
– Hardpoints:
– Left Arm: 1 Energy, 2 Missile
– Left Torso: 1 AMS
– Center Torso: 1 Missile
– Right Torso: 2 Missile
– Right Arm: 1 Energy
– Heat Sinks: 10 Single
– Jump Jets: 0 (0 Max)
– ECM Capable?: No
– Module Slots: 2
– Movement Archetype: Medium

Kintaro KTO-19

– Tonnage: 55
– Engine: 275 Standard
– Top Speed: 81 kph
– Max Engine Rating: 360
– Torso Movement:
– 100 degrees to each side.
– 20 degrees up and down.
– Arm Movement:
– 35 degrees to each side.
– 30 degrees up and down.
– Armor: 358 (Ferro-Fibrous)
– Internal Structure: Standard
– Weapons & Equipment:
– Left Arm: SRM 6, LRM 5, Medium Laser
– Center Torso: Narc
– Right Torso: SRM 6
– Right Arm: Medium Laser
– Hardpoints:
– Left Arm: 1 Energy, 2 Missile
– Left Torso: 1 AMS
– Center Torso: 1 Missile
– Right Torso: 1 Missile
– Right Arm: 2 Energy
– Heat Sinks: 10 Single
– Jump Jets: 0 (0 Max)
– ECM Capable?: No
– Module Slots: 2
– Movement Archetype: Medium

Catapult CPLT-A1(C)

– Tonnage: 65
– Engine: 280 Standard
– Top Speed: 69.8 kph
– Max Engine Rating: 315
– Torso Movement:
– 120 degrees to each side.
– 16 degrees up and down.
– Arm Movement:
– 0 degrees to each side.
– 35 degrees up and down.
– Armor: 394 (Ferro-Fibrous)
– Internal Structure: Endo-Steel
– Weapons & Equipment:
– Left Arm: LRM 15, Streak SRM 2 x2
– Right Torso: Beagle Active Probe
– Right Arm: LRM 15, Streak SRM 2 x2
– Hardpoints:
– Left Arm: 3 Missile
– Right Torso: 1 AMS
– Right Arm: 3 Missile
– Heat Sinks: 10 Double
– Jump Jets: 0 (4 Max)
– ECM Capable?: No
– Module Slots: 2
– Movement Archetype: Large
– 10% XP bonus

Cockpit Items

– Highlander Statue.

New Skin

– Virus skin.

Gameplay

– Reducing spread on LBX-10 from 2.25 down to 1.3
– Reducing the crit probability of Machine Guns. (0.11, 0.06, 0.02 > 0.06, 0.03, 0.01)
– Crit damage multiplier on Machine Guns reduced from 12.5 to 9.0
– Ultra AC/5 has a 15% chance of jamming, down from 25%
– Streak SRM-2 damage has been increased from 1.5 to 2.5
– AC2 cooldown was increased to 0.52s (up from 0.50) to fix a timing issue.
– Reduced the amount of Conquest Resource reward for the losing team.
– Increased heat amount on lava in Terra Therma.
– Lava heat increased by 20%.
– Lava damage amount per second doubled.
– Slightly increased ambient heat in center volcano area.

– Third Person View:

– In the options menu is a “Start In Third Person” option to determine which view you start each match in
– By default, this option is toggled on (to start games in third person view)
– When you are in third person view, Arm Lock is turned on and cannot be turned off
– When you are in third person view, the lance and minimap HUD elements are not available
– When you are in third person view, there is a camera drone hovering behind you that other players can see
– By default, you can press F4 to toggle between third and first person view
– This key can be rebound in the options menu
– You cannot switch views while your Mech is shut down

– Medium Mech Tuning:

– Blackjack:
– Torso Pitch Angle increased to 30 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– Centurion:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 25 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– Arm pitch angle increased to 35 degrees
– Cicada:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 30 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 10%
– Hunchback:
– HBK-4H, -4J, -4P, -4SP:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 20 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– Arm pitch angle increased to 35 degrees
– Max engine size increased to 275
– Torso pitch speed increased by 10%
– Torso twist angle increased to 125 degrees
– HBK-4G:
– Torso pitch angle remains at 25 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– Arm pitch angle increased to 35 degrees
– Max engine size increased to 275
– Torso pitch speed increased by 10%
– Torso twist angle increased to 125 degrees
– Kintaro:
– KTO-20:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 35 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– KTO-18, -19, -GB:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 30 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%
– Trebuchet:
– Torso pitch angle increased to 35 degrees
– Torso twist speed increased by 25%

Front End

Performance

Bug Fixes

– Changed spawn location in Terra Therma for players spawning too close to the shipping containers. This was causing Mechs to have human scale movement collision capsules, making it very difficult to navigate the world.
– Removed collision around the hole in center of Terra Therma’s platform in Assault mode.
– Fixed many “stuck bugs” in Terra Therma.
– Fixed some collision issues in River City (Night) where certain sized Mechs were getting stuck between buildings.

General

– Navigation marker posts in Terra Therma will now actually cast light (med+ spec) for slightly better path-finding. Pro-tip: If the marker post is on the right edge of the path, you are headed toward the center volcano.
– Terra Therma – Damage and heat sustained whilst in the Volcano has been increased and is subject to further tweaking.
– Cockpit lights indicating the open/closed state of weapon bay doors are currently non-functional. Normal functionality will return in a future release.

We thank you for your patience and we look forward to seeing you on the battlefield!

The MechWarrior® Online™ Team

2 Comments


  1. tl;dr : GoonsSwarm and IGP are responsible for third person view – more detail in the following text

    Third person view has been extremely unpopular since its introduction into Mechwarrior Online, but I think it’s important that players know the real story behind it.

    I have it from verified, reliable inside-sources that we have none other than the GoonSwarm to thank for the inclusion of third person in the game. I know what you’re thinking, but hear me out and you’ll see how it all came about.

    Inside sources have explained to me that there are goon-sympathizing people working in the testing group at IGP and that the goons have members inserted into the internal testing group that reviews all the game builds before they go live. In fact, goon operatives have been spotted at both the PGI, but more importantly, the IGP buildings. IGP sightings are more important because it is IGP and not PGI that does the internal testing and gives the go-ahead to release in-game features.

    These inside operatives have worked in cooperation with the GoonSwarm leadership to coerce and intimidate PGI into their reversal on the third person view. How is that even possible?

    When it comes to pure numbers, anyone with any experience with the Goonswarm knows that they have numbers on their side. The sheer number of in-game Squaaawk!-ing trolls bears witness to this, not to mention the number of alternate and sock-puppet accounts they also have at their disposal.

    So a coordinated emailing campaign of unprecedented size (in MWO) began where the Word of Lowtax (goon) players began flooding the PGI devs and IGP representatives with requests for third person view.

    This occurred at the same time as the inside operatives were making suggestions that it wasn’t so bad and that with all the requests, it may be a good idea to move ahead with the idea of developing a third person alternative (see the soft-sell?) for those players who wanted it.

    The thin edge of the wedge, now firmly inserted, the goon game testers in the internal group gave glowing reviews for the new system. Working toward a feedback loop fed by external requests and perpetuated by goons and goon sympathizers on the inside all of this culminating with the #savemwo open forum.

    The developers, now firmly convinced that they would be losing this large, vocal subset of players began full development of third person and pushed back other in-game systems like UI 2.0 and community warfare. All this because of the Goonswarm and sympathizers in IGP.

    Now I know what’s going to happen after this post goes live. People will begin saying how the goons love this game and how some of their best friends are goons and that they’re really nice guys and this is all nonsense and hyperbole. But nothing could be farther than the truth.

    People who have been in other games that have been exposed to goons know one thing about the goons; the only thing better than winning as a goon is ruining someone else’s gaming experience. The goons do not play the game for the same reasons as the average player. They play as trolls, unapologetically and openly. They want nothing more than to make the game un-fun for others while exploiting any in-game mechanics they can find. They want to beat you and rub your nose in it and tell you it’s not their fault; that if only the game devs would fix these problems that they’ve been so kind as to demonstrate, the game would be both fun and fair.

    For this reason, their leaders formulated a strategy. They sought to determine the best method of upsetting the battletech fans. First they found and adopted the Tetatae bird-aliens as their mascot (hence their Squaawk! battlecry). The Tetatae are the most-reviled characters of lore in battletech and generally considered non-canonical by Battletech enthusiasts.

    This persona in place, the goons then looked to see what other features of gameplay would upset, annoy or enrage the Battletech PC gaming purists and they found their perfect target in third person view. There has never been so visceral a reaction to a game change since MWO went public. There may never be again.

    I tell this to you all for the purposes of letting the blame fall squarely where it is deserved and that is in the laps of the GoonSwarm and their sympathizers at IGP.


  2. Interesting opinion. However, The goon originated #SaveMWO doesn’t have the inclusion of 3PV as one of it’s goals.. the MWO posters that I know are goons (on the MWO forums, obviously), seem to be pretty vocally against 3PV.

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